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Unpacking Relationship Challenges with Dr. Frankie Bashan

• Jacquelynn Cotten • Episode 101

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Relationships are complex, and understanding them can often feel overwhelming. 

In this episode, we dive deep into the intricacies of love, connection, and sexual fluidity with Dr. Frankie Bashan, a clinical psychologist, board-certified sex therapist, and relationship expert with over two decades of experience.

Dr. Frankie shares her expert insights into the challenges people face in their partnerships, shedding light on the critical question: when do we fight for love, and when is it time to seek assistance?

As the CEO & Founder of LittleGayBook.com and LittleBlackBookMatchmaking.com, Dr. Frankie has spent her career connecting people—both heterosexual and LGBTQIA+—through personalized matchmaking and exclusive singles events, helping thousands find meaningful relationships. 

She emphasizes the essential role of communication in relationships and explains how mastering the art of expressing ourselves can profoundly impact intimacy and connection.

Dr. Frankie has also appeared on MTV's hit dating show "Are You the One?" and shared her expertise on The Howard Stern Show, showcasing her deep understanding of relationship dynamics and communication on major national platforms. 

Throughout the discussion, we explore how empathy, curiosity, and healthy communication can help couples navigate challenges. Dr. Frankie also touches on the nuances of passive-aggressive behavior, emotional landscapes, and when seeking professional help is vital for growth. Relationships are hard, but with the right tools and commitment from both partners, they are worth the effort.

With Dr. Frankie’s unique combination of formal training and emotional intelligence, we gain valuable strategies for fostering emotional connection and relationship success. Whether you're single or in a relationship, this episode offers practical advice that anyone can implement.

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Speaker 1:

Is there a way to make it better? Is there a room? Have I tried everything? Because I do think we make a commitment. What I'm seeing now is people are bouncing prematurely. When it gets hard, they're out and that's just. That's going to repeat, that is going to play itself out again and again, no matter who they're with, because it's going to get hard. Relationships are hard Because it's going to get hard. Relationships are hard.

Speaker 1:

So you've got to do everything you can to try to improve the relationship. So seek out services from a coach, a relationship coach, expert, therapist, psychologist. Get help, get support, because most of us don't have the role models. We didn't have them, we don't know, we don't have those tools and skills and there's a lot of things now that therapists can give you to really make significant changes in the relationship. And when the communication is coming from a professional, your partner is going to hear it differently. They're not going to be defensive, they're going to be more open, more receptive, likely. So I think it's a complicated answer with your host, jacqueline Cotton. Jacqueline Cotton, first I just want to say I was in another place and space and time for the last eight minutes because I can't seem to figure out the link, but here I am with you now I'm so glad you're here, I'm so glad you're here, so glad you're here and that you made it.

Speaker 1:

Glad to be here with you. My gosh, what are we talking about today, Girl? I don't even know yet.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, I was reading through all the notes and you just sound like an incredible person and I'm going to learn a lot, a lot today. So, dr Frankie, I didn't know how to say your last name, I didn't want to butcher it, and so let's hear I was gonna say bashan, that's right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we have dr frankie, bashan um, and I would just love for if you would introduce yourself. I your credentials. I was like I can't even keep up, uh, and you are just like. Your expertise is unfathomable for me. I'm business coaching and I used to do life coaching, but when it comes to relationships, I've been the best at those. I don't have the best track record, and so I would just love if you would introduce yourself and your zone of genius and how you are making the world a better place, with my audience listening to Just Women Talking Shit.

Speaker 1:

Sure thing, I'm a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience. I'm also a board certified sex therapist and I'm a matchmaker by profession. So in 2009, I opened a matchmaking firm to really serve a population that was struggling, which are professional women who don't have a lot of time, that want to find love and want to be in long-term relationships but can't find their match. So it's I definitely it all ties into the same sort of passion, which is in connecting people with one another, in teaching them how to have healthy relationships, so giving them the tools, the skills, the confidence, all of that. That's what I do, that's my life's work.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I love it so much. You said what are we going to talk about? Well, I feel like it's just going to unfold very naturally, but what I want to hear about, what I'm taking away from that immediately, is communication, and that is something that so many of us struggle with. It's just hard. It's hard to communicate, especially when you weren't taught to communicate. You know, as a kid I was not taught to communicate.

Speaker 2:

I was taught to yell to get defensive and to let this fucking recluse play victim. And so then, when I did start finding my voice and that was with, like my mom, but also relationships it can be very intimidating because you want to use your voice and you don't know how to communicate, or that person doesn't know how to communicate, so they're not receptive. There's so many facets of that I feel like you could dive into.

Speaker 1:

And I think most people that are listening right now can relate to that experience, because often it's like people either escalate quickly because they feel like they're not getting heard, and it's hard to. When you feel like you're not being heard, it's hard not to just want to raise your voice right and shut down what the other person is saying because it's not in alignment with your experience. So, unless you acquire skills, you're just going to keep repeating a pattern of behavior that's not actually working for anybody. So, first of all, when you're angry, you can't even begin to have a conversation. So don't even bother. That's the first thing, and communication, like you said, is key. So it's the most important thing. You've got to find a way to communicate in a way where you can hear each other, and that means you've got to talk at a normal volume level, a healthy, normal tone, not a condescending or a tone with contempt. So you're talking about where right, it's subtle nuances.

Speaker 2:

Well, I was going to say what do you mean? Because I so I'm married and we have he had three boys coming into this. Wow, I have a girl, I have a girl, and then we wound up having a boy. So it's a whirlwind, blending families, and we're five years in and I'm just like it's a lot. It's a lot of learning, communicating, all the things. But one thing I've really been striving to work towards is being able to communicate with him in a way that doesn't make him feel like I'm condescending. In a way that doesn't make him feel like I'm condescending, or because I made it my mission to master emotional intelligence, to overcome trauma, to be able to communicate in a way that doesn't make people feel little.

Speaker 1:

So what do you mean by contempt? I think if you go into it being curious and empathetic and not wanting to win the argument because when we want to win we're like we're scrappy, we're going to fight, we're going in guns blazing Instead, if there can be a reframe where you're like curious, babe, what, what happened there? I care, I love you, what just happened? And if you can't be curious and empathetic in that moment which most of us can if we're angry and we've been triggered and we're just quickly stirred up, we need to go. You know what? Something just happened. Let's step away from this for a few minutes and come back. It's important to me, it's important to us in the relationship. Let's circle back, let's take an hour and if you're not ready at that point, you take another hour and you keep rechecking in.

Speaker 1:

So what's contempt? Eye rolling like that? It's an attitude that is toxic. It's not in the interest of healing, repairing. It doesn't convey care. Care doesn't convey love. So you got to get into that head space of like we're two humans doing the best that we can. We come from different backgrounds, we have different experiences of trauma. So that's where you've got to really pull on the empathy part of ourselves. It's there, you just have to like, you have to consciously tap into it. It's not going to happen on its own, because we're wired for survival. We're going to mesh it, we're going to make, we're going to make it clear where he went wrong. You know what I mean. This is where you need to do better.

Speaker 2:

That's not the solution, for sure it's just when you were talking about getting scrappy like, the trailer park in me came out and just imagine throwing hands like Jerry Springer style. There's a documentary out on that. I just started watching it last night, by the way. Did you ever watch?

Speaker 1:

Jerry Springer. Oh well, I've seen it. I'm not going to lie, I've seen it. It's hard to watch.

Speaker 2:

It's real hard to watch, I bet, especially if someone is trying to bring people together. But that shit was scrappy. Speaking of scrappy, so dysfunctional, that's what my mind just put together. We do when you do have these triggers and there's unresolved. For instance, my husband and I are so different. Our traumas are different. We both have mom issues right, I've got mom and dad issues. Who doesn't? I'm hella yeah, I'm hella fucked up, but I think everybody is.

Speaker 2:

And yes, but like, whenever it comes to communicating, it's like it can be such a challenge because he's so calm and collected and just a face of stone and like, and I'm just, I'm over here. This is how I feel, detail by detail. This is what I need, this is what I expect, and sometimes I think he's sitting back and digesting. He's not an emotional person. He does not show emotion. It's very hard to get that man to cry. The only thing that did it. Babe, I love you. We're listening. He didn't cry when our son was born, but but that man has. I know he's added in him because a star is born.

Speaker 1:

That's a good one. So funny. What a hoax emotion in us.

Speaker 2:

Right, but it just it showed me that I did. I don't quite understand him, but what he is willing to, I don't know. Maybe he felt safe in that environment, not in front of all these doctors, and anyway. So I guess what I'm getting at is when you have two people who are one is super. I'm heavily involved in personal development. I just got super into fitness. I've lost 50 pounds. I am ready to take on the fucking world.

Speaker 2:

I'm in my dirty 30s. I'm finally at that point in my life where I'm comfortable in my own skin. I feel sexy and part of that is like very intellectual for me. I don't ever want to quit learning, but I guess what I'm asking is because if I go through this, I know other women are going through it, but men too.

Speaker 2:

But you have a partner who maybe one partner is super emotional. I'm called highly, a highly sensitive person and I have mental illness battles within myself, right and so, and then the trauma, yada, yada, yada. But I am highly sensitive and highly receptive to energy and you can tell me you're okay, but I can feel you're not okay the way your, your mannerisms, the way you just worry that shit in the dishwasher.

Speaker 2:

So how do you? What is your advice to the people out there that, like they feel so different? One is like I'm here, I'm listening, and then the other one's like you feel like maybe they're not listening. You're sitting there and you're like I know you're here physically, but why haven't these things, things that are important to me, why don't they seem important to you? Are you really listening?

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, so many thoughts, so so many. Let me, let me. Let me grab them all as they're popping up. I threw a lot at you, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

The first thing most of us are really different from our partners because the opposites attract, and that's true. I know it sounds cliche, but we're attracted to what's different, right Differences from us, somebody who's different in style. There's a yin and yang and a balance and you want to be careful not to make assumptions. So just because he's quiet doesn't mean that he doesn't care, doesn't mean that he's not feeling a lot of emotion. Men are wired like. Let's be real, men are wired differently than women. It can take them longer to process and understand what's happening and formulate a response. So it's really important to give them space to be able to just be who they are and not assume that they're not feeling, they don't care, they're not thinking. They're there with you, they are present and it may look like it, but assume good, this is where we go down the wrong, like the rabbit hole, right, we need to assume that they're there because they care and because they love us. They're just different, full stop and give them space and you can say no, I'm expressive. I know I'm a lot, and let's come back. I wanna hear your thoughts. I wanna give you time and space to process. Can we come back? I want to hear your thoughts, I want to give you time and space to process. Can we come back to this?

Speaker 1:

So it's about allowing, allowing him to be different than you and allowing him the space and time to get to a place where he can answer and give you, give you, a response that's honest and authentic, because otherwise you don't want that. You don't want him to just react and to give you something that's actually not even right. It doesn't. It's just a reaction, it's not an action. We want to be acting in relationship, not reacting, and the only way to get to a point where you can act on something thoughtfully you have to have time to think, and when you're I, jacqueline, I know because I can relate to you I'm fiery and I'm quick.

Speaker 1:

My words come quick. I know exactly what I'm feeling and I can, I can tell you right now what you're feeling. Just imagine if you have a doctorate in political psychology and all these years of experience. You really think the other person's feeling and thinking All bad, right, I got to just chill out, share a little bit as calmly as I can. If not, again abort mission and come back later and speak about my experience. I can't tell you. This is how you're acting and this is how you're feeling. I used to. It was fire, fire, fire.

Speaker 2:

And he, because he's so calm and collected, has pulled me back. He knows, jacqueline, you need to take 24 to 48 hours to think on that, and I've gotten better about that and so. But here's one thing that we run into, Because I've gotten good at that and like I do drop. It's not hints, it's very direct things that are non-negotiables. Things are important for me right as I evolve, things that that just you change, you shift as a human you evolve, right?

Speaker 2:

I guess one thing that, because I've learned from him like that to take time to, to think about things, I almost wonder, wonder if and women out there listening, please write me if you do this too, but it's not like it. I feel like it may feel to him like some things come out of nowhere, but the reality is that's where it goes to, the. Do our partners and women do this shit too? Are they listening? Because it's just like. Sometimes it feels like it comes out of. I feel like he probably feels like it comes out of nowhere the important conversations, and I'm like well, when does it come? I try to almost build up to the conversations, but what is your, what's your stance on that?

Speaker 2:

When you do start to learn from your partner to take time, let them be themselves, like because we had a really intense conversation about two days ago, um, and that's part of the blended family thing. Like my daughter, it's really really hard for them to connect and that is something that, as a parent, is very hard to accept. So it's not a situation that I'm throwing on him. We've been together five years now, right, but it sometimes feels like because I've learned from him to take space and really think it through before I have a big conversation. It comes out left field. Is there any way around that, or do you just continue to do the best you can and hope that they feel that it is coming from love, that you have taken the time to think about it, because it can be a lot. It feels like you're throwing a lot at them, but it's like. These are the things I'm feeling. I just want you to know so that when you're ready to respond, you can respond.

Speaker 1:

It's an ongoing dialogue. I think, like when you have a blended family, there's so much complexity. The kids are different ages, different personality styles, right Different dispositions, and then there's the two of you trying to show up for each other's kids. This is complex and then there's exes. We don't even want to get into that right.

Speaker 1:

So all these dynamics, so you need to make a commitment to yourself and each other and the relationship to have an ongoing conversation, and sometimes the conversations are going to be tense and but other times that they're just going to be kind of curious and easy and if you're both in a really good headspace, there's going to be more room.

Speaker 1:

If you both feeling like it's date night and say there's something you're both feeling really good and connected. You just had great sex the night before. Now you've got date night, you're sitting there eating good food together and you know what I'm talking about where you feel really connected and it's relaxed, that's a good time to bring up something nothing too crazy, but to talk about it when both people are like disarmed and if it's an ongoing conversation that you're revisiting, not from a place of wanting to fight, from a place of wanting to feel seen and heard and to continue to make progress. It's like you want the intention to be, not to change his behavior. That's the other thing that's really important, very, very, very important. It's about just expressing your experience and feeling heard. It's not about getting him to change what he does and how he does what he does Beautifully said, beautifully said.

Speaker 1:

Allow him to be who he is. The change happens within us, has to happen within you, and when you make a change within yourself, it changes the whole system. You have a family system going on there. Everybody has a role in that system. If you were to sit down and map it out, you could label everybody's role in that family system your daughter, his kid. You know what I mean. All of the. So once you tweak your behavior, just slightly, turn the dial, it's going to impact everybody and you'll see shifts happening. So focus on changing yourself to see a different right, a difference.

Speaker 2:

For sure that is so it's. This isn't me, but I'm already doing that, but I am doing that. If knew my story, oh my god. 2024 was wild and I've seen I did notice. I started working out and started losing weight.

Speaker 2:

In the beginning we would go on walks together and then that kind of stopped and then I noticed I was depending on him and then one day I was just like you know what I'm over this shit and I started going and I just made that commitment to myself. But what was funny was it went from and I think this is what you're saying is whenever I took the pressure off of him to let's do this together and I just started going to the gym and he saw how consistent I was and he could see my body transforming. You know like we're having sex and he's like whoa, is this my wife? You know like we're having sex and he's like whoa is this my wife? Your body looks different. It was so funny. He started going on walks and he works out in the garage and stuff like that, and so is that what you mean?

Speaker 1:

That's a perfect example. Yes, because he's watching you prioritize yourself. He's seeing that there are actual physical changes for you. You're also how you're showing up is going to change a little bit. You're going to feel more like. You're going to feel yourself. You know what I mean. You feel more confident, you feel sexier, you're more interested in connecting. You know how it is sexually Like you, you liking your body more, so you may be more comfortable sexually with him, right? So he's like, wow, she got it going on. I want some of that. That would be good for me, that would be good for our relationship.

Speaker 1:

So you're not even asking him. Hey, babe, come on, you're so lazy. See, that's another thing. You've got to be very careful not to criticize, right? That's it. That's toxic. You're so lazy. Here I am doing this, I'm working out, I'm doing all these things to take care of myself. You're selfishly sleeping in. That all has to be. So it's. You demonstrate, you model your hope Like there's a hope. There can be a hope there that he joins. But let him get to that. Allow him to be himself.

Speaker 2:

A hundred million Cause I don't know what numbers come after that. Agree with that, but because it is, and so it's, he's taught me so, so much and he's definitely calmed me down and made me a better person for sure. So all this is hitting home. You said something about the insults. That's one thing I used to do. I was so insecure, but I had no good relationships to build off of no good examples whatsoever. And I remember, with my daughter's dad especially, being so insecure and he passed away in 2020. So that's a whole thing on its own, but I so there's like a survivor's guilt and like I was bitch so many times. But there's like I remember times where I would be upset, like hurt me or something, and so what would I do? I would emasculate the fuck out of him.

Speaker 2:

And looking back now I'm like I don't condone violence, but as a bitch, I could see myself slapping myself with the way I acted and I like there were times where I was. I like acted when I was drunk, like the beginning of a relationship, and I remember him telling me like never do it again. I'm gone and but I see in my line of work like um, because at the end of the day, you're still a life coach. Whatever coach you are, people come to you with their problems, right. But I see this a lot women complaining about their partners and like if they were talking about me that way behind my back, I don't, that would fucking hurt. It would hurt like so the emasculating, I can't believe I was that way. First off, it's really sad.

Speaker 1:

Be loving towards yourself and have compassion. Right Like this is where the skills come in. Like you didn't have role models teaching you how to fight fairly. That's true.

Speaker 2:

And he didn't either.

Speaker 1:

That's the thing. So it's like you didn't know any better and now you're learning and it's your intention to continue to do better. So that's all we can do is to continue to work on evolving and be better and be kinder, like we need more cut. Today more than ever, I feel like in my career I'm like to channel as much as possible to give and chat like like all that energy of kindness and love, acceptance for to understand difference, right. So the thing is you can complain totally acceptable to complain and be like babe, I'm so frustrated, there's dishes in the sink again. Can you just like more mindful of the fact that I don't want to come home and see dishes? I would just and just have it. Be like it doesn't have to be an argument, it can be just a complaint and that's it.

Speaker 1:

Where it becomes problematic is when you start to criticize and it's like you start to character assault. You see, you're just like your father. Your mom talks about how lazy he is and how sloppy and messy he is, and I can see it in you. That's all bad Like. These are things. These behaviors eventually build and lead to divorce, like John Gottman, I don't know. I'm sure folks who listen are listening. Some are familiar. 30, 40 years of research on relationships, what works and what doesn't work, and contempt and criticism does not work. Defensiveness, right. When you express yourself and your partner turns around and says, yeah, you did yesterday and you, okay, you do that too, and here are the ways that you do that, what does that do? It invalidates what you're saying. It means that, like, basically, it sends a message that there's no right, like getting anywhere here. We're not making progress. You're not feeling heard or understood. Now it's just a fight. Now you're in the ring.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, passive aggressiveness come into all of this, because that's something that I'm for sure guilty of it. I know I am, but when and that's another reason I want to understand it like we do that, um, I'm learning to like ask for help and step back and be like wait, that was. It was kind of like that day you're being nobody around. You deserve that, but how do you so that I understand? So I don't do it.

Speaker 2:

And then, when my partner or even my children are super passive-aggressive or like mom or just people like we do it right, don't know how to channel those emotions and ask for help, where does all this come into play? And like, do you navigate that? Do you? You continue to like they say they're okay and it's very obvious they're not. Do you offer help again? Do you ask a different way? Do you embrace them and like, can we calm down? Give them a hug, like you do? Do you give them space? I don't know what the fuck to do. I don't even know what to do with my person. What do I do with this person who's like I'm okay, but it's like they're not okay?

Speaker 1:

That's a good question. Oh my gosh, you ask really good questions. It's so fun. Okay, all of us probably can see at different points in time how we've behaved in this way. It's if you're not really actively observing and working hard to not be passive, aggressive and really to be assertive, honest and authentic with how you're feeling, it's going to come out unconsciously, inadvertently, in passive-aggressive ways. Number one, right? So this is why I say communicate, communicate, communicate as much as possible, but obviously not over-communicate. You don't want to kill your relationship by, like, overly processing. That's a whole other thing, we'll get into that later.

Speaker 1:

So when somebody is being passive, aggressive, it's they're hurting. When we're being passive, aggressive, we're hurting and we're not accessing our tools, we're not showing up at our highest selves to be mature, adult in the relationship and really share what like vulnerability in us. What's hurting us about what's happening the behavior. Vulnerability in us, what's hurting us about what's happening, the behavior. It is not our job to get somebody else to talk. You know what I mean to behave differently. So here's the allowing again, you allow them to do what they're doing and you acknowledge that. Oh, that seems passive, aggressive, that's hurting me. I can have boundaries so you can remove yourself, you can right, you have options and you can decide. You know what I'm opting out. I'm not going to engage in the passive aggressivity. I'm not going to reinforce it at all, I'm going to steer clear. So really, it's about you having healthy boundaries and not participating in it, cause then you're in, then you're right. You're like reinforcing that behavior, cause now you're just, then you're right. You're like reinforcing that behavior, cause now you're just responding to it.

Speaker 1:

It's like a kid who's having a temper tantrum. Do we then play into that or do we just go? I'm right, mommy's right, right here, I love you and I'm going to be right over here when you are done kicking and screaming on the cement. Right over here. When you are done kicking and screaming on the cement, I'm right here. You know where to find me Right. And then they're like oh shit, it's not working. Oh my God, now I'm embarrassed. I've made a whole scene in front of all these people. They get up and they like. So I just could see my son doing this, because this happened a few times and it only happened a few times because it didn't work. So that's the thing. If you don't participate in it, it actually will resolve itself, because most of us have the ability of self-reflection and shame. We don't want to keep acting like that. Don't feel good.

Speaker 2:

So you say I've got good questions. A couple more questions. I don't even know what time it is. Give them to me, quite okay. So with the whole past, you say that it should dissipate if we don't give attention to it professionally, because I'm I'm big on like my clients come to me uh, it's, you know, it's money. They want to make more money, they want to live life you're happy, and and often that also includes like trinity and allowing themselves to receive like that partner or um, sometimes it's letting go of that partner, right, um, to make room for like for them, um, and so with I live in the south I don't know if you figured that out with my accent but it's very cute, by the way.

Speaker 2:

You're so beautiful, by the way. I meant, like such a gorgeous woman, you've got this. I don't know, I mean, I haven't got to put my finger on it, but you've got this. Um, it's really, she's like a classic. I'll I'll think of it later but, uh, but this very classic look that I can't put my finger on, love it. Thank you, oh my God, what was I saying though?

Speaker 1:

Okay, professional, they want to meet their person. They have to change their identity.

Speaker 2:

Like your clients, so, like I say, at what point do you just like the whole passive-aggressive thing? What I think of is I'm taught, I was taught, I've been taught from a very young age, being like I was in church, pentecostal, all the things, speaking on tongues, wow, okay, yeah, I what I was taught and I'm not saying I'm not that I opted out of that whole thing, um, but we were taught and it's still very prominent in the South, in the Bible belt, like ever. You just put up with it, especially as a woman, like by your man and you. You see them through everything. So like, thank God, I love, I love you and I miss you, grandma, but I just what's coming to mind is like my grandmother.

Speaker 2:

She died in her early 60s and she was like, oh, ready to go? Send me to jesus, I'm ready. And it broke my fucking heart because she was like mine, the perfect woman. She took care of my papa. She was like t-bone steaks every other night, hand and foot waiting on him, and she put up with shit she put up with so much shit cheating?

Speaker 2:

I've heard some insane stories from my mother. What point is like okay, not paying attention to this tantrum? Is that enough like you just continue to compromise and be like, okay, I'm not going to participate in that fit and embrace all the other good things? Or is that something that you think is a non-negotiable, that nobody should ever have to just put up with that kind of behavior forever?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's so case by case. It's tough to sit down and have meetings with ourselves and get really quiet and honest and real, have alone time and get to the beach, go to the mountains and just sit and reflect Like is there still good in this relationship? Why am I here? What do I get from this relationship? Am I feeling joy? Do I feel overall happy? You've got to be like in the real content and kind of joy and happiness in your relationship. If the if it's flipped the other way, then you should be asking yourself is this where I want to be? And if it's not where I want to be, is there a way to make it better? Is there a room? Have I tried everything? Because I do think we make a commitment to like, enter into a relationship.

Speaker 1:

What I'm seeing now is people are bouncing prematurely. When it gets hard, they're out and that's just they're going to. That's going to repeat, that is going to play itself out again and again, no matter who they're with, because it's going to get hard. Relationships are hard, so it's you got to do everything you can to try to improve the relationship. So seek out, you know, services from a coach a relationship coach, expert, therapist, psychologist, a coach, a relationship coach, expert, therapist, psychologist Get help, get support, because most of us don't have the role models. We didn't have them, we don't know, we don't have those tools and skills and there's a lot of things now that therapists can give you to really make significant changes in the relationship. And when the communication is coming from a professional, your partner is going to hear it differently. They're not going to be defensive, they're going to be more open, more receptive, likely.

Speaker 1:

So I think it's a complicated answer and I think if you know that you've exhausted every possibility in improving the relationship and more often than not you're pretty unhappy, maybe even miserable, then maybe it's time to call it quits. But remember, one thing I want to do, I want to say, is that the human condition is mostly suffering. That's what we've all we're being lied to. The messaging that we're surrounded with is you should be happy, you shouldn't feel sad more often than not, because, if you are, you should take medication because you're a depressed person, when the reality is that we tend towards suffering. We do it towards. This is just our nature, human nature. So let's be realistic also when we're thinking about like our level of happiness and right, so every day shouldn't be what we're going like. Of course it'd be beautiful if we could be joyful and happy every single day. It's just not realistic, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Is it okay to people in your line of work? Have you do people just grow apart? Is that a thing or is it an excuse?

Speaker 1:

I think that if both people really want to be in something, they can likely stay together. They can create the glue between each other to not grow apart. It's when people stop doing the work and not communicating as much they're going outside of their relationship to get most of their needs met. They're inevitably going to start to veer away from one another. It has to be an active effort on both sides to maintain the relationship. So no, I don't believe you really grow apart. You can, but in general most people it's about them not doing the work Makes complete sense.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I want you to tell me a little bit about your book in a minute. But for for everybody listening who like, okay, I'll be a better partner, maybe I should take a different approach, different angle at this. How I bring things up. Do you have any tips on how to like conversations or like? What I'm looking more for is like not a script, but like what you could say, so they don't feel like you're attacking them, like the whole thing I've learned um is, when I communicate, I don't tell him. You make me feel. I say so. What happened about five minutes ago? Like they were doing this and this man, like I, felt triggered and I think it's.

Speaker 2:

I don't know where it's coming from, but like situation made me feel this way or that's how I I'm taking it. So just hearing someone like a professional say don't ever because they feel attacked, right Like and I can't tell them how they're feeling and he can't tell me how I'm feeling. Nobody fucking knows how I'm feeling, but I don't know how to communicate that. So what are some things?

Speaker 1:

we could say. So what you just said is extremely important Remove you Speak from I, so use I statements and you can look them up. Very simply. I feel you want to start with an emotion. I feel really sad or I feel really frustrated or angry, because yesterday, when we were outside the school remember when this, like standing that you see there's no you, it's like yo and I really in that situation, once you you create some context, you say you know, I would have really preferred it if it could have been handled this way instead. You see what I mean? I feel frustrated when this situation happened and I would have. I would really appreciate it if it could be handled this way instead. And you can search, look online, like I statements. There will be a ton of examples. So that's there's that.

Speaker 1:

The other thing is, you want to really be careful of using absolutes. You always do this. You never show me affection, for example. You always lose your shit. You always lose your temper. You, you never show up. You know you never come. You always never right that. Those are absolutes. Remove those as well, because it's too black and white. Remove those as well, because it's too black and white it's. It's often where it's nuanced and we're in the gray. But our mind is very, can be very black and white, unless we keep right, unless we are training ourselves to think about the gray more. Be in the gray Cause it's not always true. No one is always one way, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And something I've heard recently that is just like that makes sense. It's like things can be true at the same time. His truth is his truth, my truth is my truth, same with my mom. Like we've navigated the past few years and she came out and she told me she said, man, the things that you tell me, because she struggled with drug addiction and she wasn't around all the time, so there's like trauma there. But she finally came out and told me she was like I'm just thinking that the shit that you're talking about I had no idea about because I don't remember any of it, and so, like her truth is so different than my truth and you said something earlier that I feel like we can tie this all together. But before we talk about your book, real quick, um is, was it? What was I saying?

Speaker 2:

I have like ADHD oh, I do too so when you get the squirrel brain thing, oh yeah, and then it'll come back to you when we're off the call oh no, no, no, it was you said the, the, uh, the effort to understand, or something or effort to understand, or something or effort to understand. Maybe Be curious.

Speaker 2:

Well, the curiosity, yeah, just leading like curiosity and it goes for me emotional intelligence and being able to separate myself and just be like lay the facts out, this is what they, this is how they saw things and not take it so personal, has been real big. But I think that's something that a lot of us struggle to do, Like we're to take politics for entrance, Like we'll could just take themselves out of the equation and be like okay, interest in just trying to understand the other side. I think it's huge Right.

Speaker 1:

And not make assumptions. We're making so many assumptions, and that's what we do in relationship too. We assume we know what our partner is thinking and feeling yep, okay, so quick.

Speaker 2:

What like the fuck are you up to? I've seen, when I was looking at your social media, like I mean you have been on some tv, maybe some like, and you've had a book, um, and I don't know you're. I've seen you everywhere. But can you tell everybody like, find you what you're doing right now, where to find your book? What is your book about? Or do you have multiple books? That's all the one book.

Speaker 1:

So I actually don't have a book published yet.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I have been working on it.

Speaker 1:

Little gay book. So little gay book is my matchmaking company that is LGBTQ, and little black book is heterosexual matchmaking. So if you're straight, go to Little Black Book matchmaking. If you're queer, go to littlegaybookcom and you can learn all about how we do what we do and how we help people find love and schedule a call with us. We're happy to hop on a call for 15 minutes or so and chat with you about your questions around that and explain how we do what we do.

Speaker 1:

I've been published around a long time, so it's been 16 years Amazing Since I launched the company and I hope to have my book done this year and it will be about how all the things we're talking about how to have a healthy, successful, long-term relationship in a digital age that is doing everything possible to undermine our success in relationship by giving us all these messages and making things people. It's too I bet you've heard this how we have such easy access to one another now through Facebook. People are rekindling love and fantasy and idealizing right. They're getting back together with their first love from high school. They're bouncing from their family and right Like. There's so much easy access now and it makes it really hard to maintain good boundaries because there's temptation all around us. We're human, we're going to have temptation, yeah.

Speaker 2:

That grass is greener on the other side and social media presents it as like something better, like I literally fall victim to that. I posted in my stories the other day and it was it's not to be passive. My husband's not on social media al he's like nine years older than me. Only reason I'm there is that's how I make a living, right, but it's so accessible like these I don't know how they are in real life, but they're making it look good, taking care of their wives like food, and I'm like not real men like this exist not real?

Speaker 2:

that's literally my question. Do men anytime I post anything like that, I'm like men like this actually exist, or is it all for the fucking camera?

Speaker 1:

it's entertainment, it's all for the fucking camera. It's entertainment, it's all for the camera. It's annoying. So let's not like not greener on the other side. So let's work in being in relationship and seeing if we can grow ourselves and evolve and get our relationship to a place that really feels fulfilling. So what else? Just find me, I'm all. Just Dr Frankie, you can find me. I was on Howard Stern a few weeks ago, amazing. I'll be on again soon.

Speaker 2:

Shut the front door.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no spoiler. I can't tell you what, but you got to go check it out. On Sirius Radio and I was the expert on Are you the One? Mtv's Are you the One? First sexually fluid cast. I was the doctor on the show and season eight, which was amazing and so fun. Yeah, I've done lots.

Speaker 2:

I'm so. I like how big you were. That's like I feel so honored right now to even have you here.

Speaker 1:

Such a pleasure.

Speaker 2:

Whoever your publicist is, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1:

I'll let her know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm a writer too. She's wonderful, she, thank you. Thank you, I'll let her know. Yeah, I write her too. She's wonderful, she's so wonderful. But what was I going to say? I feel like a douche because I read Little Gay Book and I was like she's got books out.

Speaker 1:

That's what people assume, and I feel I'm always like, oh my gosh, because people will say where's your book? How can I find it? I'm like, ah, I don't have a book I have. I have like notebooks full of my book that I just need to pull together. So 2025, that's my goal, but I've. I'm such a visionary, there's so many other things I've been doing and I get pulled in all these different directions that I'm like yes to MTV, yes to that. And I'm one person. I only have so many hours in a day.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, keep doing you, you are incredible.

Speaker 1:

This has been so good so so so, so, so good.

Speaker 2:

Is there anything else that you would like to say? I have like a and I just say part with what's on your heart. If you had any last words of wisdom and then I'll let you go, because I know you're a busy woman on Howard Stern and shit.

Speaker 1:

The last thing I want to say is that just remember that we're all human and we're imperfect, and as long as our intention daily is to be kind to ourselves and be kind to others, that's what. That's what it takes to all elevate, to drive all of us to rise, is to just spread kindness and be kind to yourself.

Speaker 2:

This is the Southern girl on me, but amen, amen to that. Thank you so much. Seriously, it just changed my life with all that information. That's it y'all, dr Frankie Bichon. It's been an honor.

Speaker 1:

Thank you again, and I hope you have a beautiful day on purpose, you too.

Speaker 2:

Bye.

People on this episode

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Jacquelynn Cotten

Host
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Dr. Frankie Bashan

Guest